Nintendo Possibly Altered Fire Emblem Fates Scenes to Avoid “Controversy”

Thursday, January 21st, 2016

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fire emblem soliel

Fire Emblem Fates has a feature where the player is allowed to marry characters. Nintendo has responded to Nintendo World Report about a controversial issue that will most likely be altered in the Western release of the game.

In the version of the game that ships in the U.S. and Europe, there is no expression which might be considered as gay conversion or drugging that occurs between characters.

The scene in question involves a supposedly lesbian character named Soliel who has grown up attracted to women, but is confused about it. She knows she gets excited around women, but she doesn’t know how to handle it. So if your character is a male, he’ll put “Magic Powder” in her tea that will allow her to see males as females and females as males. The character admits to Soliel that he did this to help her talk to people easier, but she has already chosen him as the man she wants to be with, even though she still likes women.

There is no word on if this scene is taken out completely or was just altered. After some research, it’s clear that Soliel is not converted to being straight,as she still likes women, but she finds that she is also attracted to the main male character after discovering it’s easier to talk to him. Soliel sounds more like a female version of Kanji from Persona 4.

We will report on any further updates to this story.

Fire Emblem Fates will release on February 19 for the 3DS.

Thanks, Gaijinhunter and mombot




  • Thomas

    I think that this change is just, due to their is no way that the treehouse division cannot make it any less controversial than it already is. Well except for memes #downwithNoA

  • Ashley Lau

    I’m with Nintendo on this one. It’s flat out creepy that he drugged her without her knowledge, good intentions or no.

    It’s also a really common anime trope that gay women are “cured” of their lesbianism by finding “the right guy”, despite swathes of evidence pointing to actual lesbianism. Once they find Mr. Right, they no longer go about flirting with other women because in Japanese cultures, women being attracted to other women is seen as “childish” or “just a phase”.

    So yeah. Japan treats “gay conversion” as a positive thing in their culture. Not so much in North America.

    • Name

      The

    • Mr0303

      Or she could be bisexual.

    • Vanadise

      I’m confused as to why censorship is ok because it’s something you think is creepy.

  • Mr0303

    So Nintendo folded under the pressure of a couple of perpetually offended snowflakes that will never play the game. Shame. This is why region free games and consoles should be a thing.

    • Infophile

      I’d rather side with people who are offended by the positive representation of gay conversion therapy than people who are offended by other people being offended, but you do you.

    • Raiden_chino

      But is not a “positive representation of gay conversion therapy”. The intention of the main character was to look like a girl to expose Soleil to her problems, so she can overcome faint or getting weaker close to cute girls.

      But let’s suppose it is a sexual therapy, then this therapy consist in exposing a girl… to another girl. That doesn’t seems a very effective way of making a girl hetero to me.

    • Rebochan

      But he did it against her will, and then she falls in love with him for it. There’s no way to put a positive spin on it without ignoring what actually happens in the game.

    • Raiden_chino

      “But he did it against her will”
      True, that was bad.

      “and then she falls in love with him for it.”
      And that’s bad because? It was SHE who fall for him, knowing he is a guy since the start. That’s looks like bi to me. If she were a lesbian, she would have discard him. Not to mention the main character don’t do any moves on her as a girl (or even as a guy based on the translation, till the very end and she is already in love with him).
      It’s a weird fantasy love story that included magical powders in a drink.

    • Rebochan

      “And that’s bad because?”

      I really should not have to explain why a writer depicting a lesbian being drugged against her will and then falling in love with the person who did it is a bad thing.

      These aren’t real people. They’re fictional characters, and they do what they do because an actual real person thought they should do that.

    • Raiden_chino

      Like I said before, the powder thing is bad, but it wasn’t with the intention of her getting in love with him. And about the writer, considering the characters personality, seems like a pretty absurd anime to me. Soleil went in a rampage to see if the other boys looked like cute girls.
      Also I think you are making it sound worse than it is, “a lesbian drugged against her will fall in love with that person who did it”, I could also resume it like “a lesbian rediscover her sexuality when she see her male boss in drag” (OK, that was awful).

      Try making the story the other way around. An hetero girl, nervous around guys and a lesbian friend that try to help her doing the same powder thing looking like a man. Nervous girl fall in love with her friend and discover she is bi/lesbian. For some reason, some people could think this a cute story and even about orientation discovery, but the other way around is “rapey” and conversion therapy.

    • Rebochan

      Your example a lesbian drugging a girl to be a lesbian IS rapey, you’re correct. It would be called out as such too. Hell, it HAS been called out like that. The rather famous feminist play The Vagina Monologues originally included a monologue from an adolescent girl who had been sexually abused by men, but found a rape by a lesbian who drugged her to be “liberating” and even said it was a “good rape” since it awakened her to her lesbian orientation. There was a massive outcry over the scene and the play had to be rewritten because yea, drugging a kid and raping her is bad and saying it was okay because she discovered her sexuality from it is even worse.

      This was twenty years ago. While Soleil is fortunately spared actual rape, being drugged to see things a certain way and then changing her orientation as a result of the drugging hasn’t gotten any better. Attaching it to a romance subplot makes it even worse. She cannot be romanced by the avatar without the avatar drugging her… therefore, yes, the player does drug her to hook up with her.

      Really, even if the Avatar just said “Hey, Soleil, I have an idea. If I give you this potion that lets you see everyone as the opposite of their actual sex, it could help you!” and Soleil agreed to give it a try, letting her have a choice would remove soooooo much of the creepyness. Also, establishing her as liking guys BEFORE this storyline would make it clear she’s not just a converting lesbian.

    • Raiden_chino

      OK, long text.
      Hmmm convincing argument. However I’m going to repeat there was not intention of taking advantage of Soleil of any kind (neither in my alternative story). From the script, the guy wasn’t even thinking on making her fall in love with him, less forcing her.
      The Vagina Monologues definitely crossed the line, but even then I don’t think is required to be changed. The message doesn’t need to be a politically correct one. If you want to create a character that didn’t consider a traumatic experience to be raped and she found it liberating… Well, it’s an interesting take. Note that I have no freaking clue how the original play was. Whatever the case, I don’t agree with censoring it.
      Do not consider this rape apologist, I’m talking about fictional character creation, not about not condemning it.

      The thing is, the only similar thing we have to “magic powder in her drink” is drug and rape, so is easy to make the association (to the point of calling the main character a rapist). Yes, putting something in her drink is bad, but is not immediately rape. The only foul act here was putting something in her drink without her permission and it seemed to be harmless beside it’s main effect (I know it seems apologist too, but I will make a distinction if someone secretly give me pills for a fever to help me and someone that secretly give me cocaine). So the main character made a mistake or the writer made him do if you prefer. The consequence, which seems more like a causality, it’s that both end getting in love.

      It’s not the best love message, but is not required to be perfect. Their relationship just started in a very weird way.
      Maybe it’s just me, but if I see one of my male friends as a girl for a couple of hours I’m not going to fall for them xD specially if they tell me who they are from the start. As a “forced influence” I found it too weak, compared to the possible trauma of a real homosexual rape like in the play example. What I’m saying, it seems more a honest feeling from Soleil than she falling for a trick.

      I agree that probably changing a few lines with the main character giving her the powders after explaining what is to her, will get rid of most of the issue. But still I feel it like censoring something just for the sake of keeping everything clean and good.

    • Rebochan

      Just to try and break things down a little quicker because Disquis walls of text suck:

      – The creator of the Vagina Monologues chose to change the scene in her own play because it was hurting the perception of the work and also seriously damaging its credibility as a statement against violence against women. Creators do listen to feedback and make changes they feel are appropriate to how the work should be viewed. Nintendo did that here, it IS their game after all.
      – The thing is, we don’t live in a vacuum and fiction is created by people that live on our real world where drugging and sleeping with someone is an actual bad thing. Even if the intent was innocent, it doesn’t make the work any better since most people will not play the game with a long list of liner notes explaining what the authors wanted. The avatar in the game doesn’t drug Soleil to sleep with her, but the player does – this is a required action they have to take if they intend to date Soleil. In video games, we do have to take into account for how mechanics affect the interpretation of the game because they are an interactive medium. It’s why “Press X to pay respects” became such a big joke to Call of Duty – a mechanic and a game action didn’t sync up.
      – I think you arrived at the problem with this scene in your comparison between someone slipping you fever meds and someone slipping you cocaine. I’d be furious if someone altered my mind under any circumstances without telling me. At least if someone tried to fix my physical health, I wouldn’t be as angry because I’d still be able to think and be myself.
      – You also hit on the problem, unintentionally, with Soleil only needing a few hours to see the main character as a woman to fall in love with them – the writers are implying that a lesbian isn’t really a lesbian at all, they just need to know the right guy. It’s only somewhat mitigated by an actual lesbian existing in the cast, but again, these works don’t exist in the vacuum. There would be ways to establish a bisexual Soleil with more class and dignity that could also play up the comedic aspects of her character.
      – Finally, we actually don’t know how much is getting changed. Given that the support conversations exist only in dialog and Nintendo has frequently rewritten them wholesale for all kinds of reasons (see: Sumia and her pies), they could well just take out the creepy powder drugging and still leave in her issues with women. This content is only available in a support conversation.

    • Raiden_chino

      Don’t worry, is a nice talk anyway : P
      I think it will be my last reply as I probably said almost everything I thought on the subject.
      -If the author considered her own message wrong, then I agree it should be changed.
      -The main character it’s not a mute one, you are more a spectator of his (or her) story than really playing trough him, at least on this scenes. The guy has a personality and you could not agree with some of his actions. Even if the player select her for marriage, you have no clue if it will happen or how. They could have decided that’s impossible to achieve S level with her (hey, maybe they do change that) like some same sex couples in the game.
      -In that aspect I don’t how I would react if someone gave me this powder, maybe I would be mad, the reason better be a very good one.
      -“the writers are implying that a lesbian isn’t really a lesbian at all,” No no, they’re just implying that Soleil isn’t really a lesbian (not a 100% one at least). Just one character.
      I know a few girls that call themselves hetero that maybe have “experimented” too much (and is not like they hide those experiences) and a girl that used to say she was bi and all about don’t caring about gender until mid 20 when she had to accept she was just a lesbian and never dated a guy and wasn’t interested either. And I also know girls that knew they were lesbians since like age 8 or earlier and never had any doubts. Soleil simply falls in some of the first groups, maybe she is a girl that thought she was a lesbian and now find out she is bi (she still likes girls at the end). And maybe that was the story they wanted to tell, instead of presenting her as bisexual at the beginning which would have ruined the “surprise”.
      By the way, I just read that another boy can marry Soleil and even if he is a VERY FEMININE boy, it’s still a boy. I don’t think Soleil is that much of a lesbian.

      -I think it will be a mess xD Fixing the powder problem will be the best thing and by just reading the translation anyone can realize is not a “conversion therapy”, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they make her full lesbian (or full hetero?). They could just eliminate the powders completely.

    • Mr0303

      Side with whoever you want, but being offended is a really pointless endeavor. Nintendo censoring the game just shows that the audience can’t handle the authors’ original vision, which is rather patronizing of the western gamers.

    • Infophile

      The “authors’ original vision”? Outside of the indie scene, games are made by committee. It could just as easily be that some people on the team didn’t want this at all, but were overruled. Or perhaps a minority wanted it, and the rest thought it wasn’t worth picking a fight over. So yeah, now we see the process of the localizers changing something, but who’s to say that someone’s pure vision wasn’t already changed?

      And don’t throw around the word “offended” like it makes you win the argument. It’s just an oversimplification of the reasons people have problems with things like this. If you don’t like their reasons, address those. Don’t just label it “offense” and summarily ignore it.

    • Mr0303

      The fact is that the game is changed from the original Japanese version to “suit” the western market, which would mean that people in the West have some major problem with the scenario, where in fact a minority would have any issue with the scene.

      It is no different than Jack Thompson complaining about violence in games – another offensive topic.

    • Infophile

      So, even if it is just a minority who would have an issue with it, does it hurt you more to have it removed than it helps them? This is a mass-market game. Sometimes that means sanding off some of the rough edges so that more people can enjoy it. Imagine if the original version of the game had flashing lights in it which could trigger epileptic seizures in some people, and this was changed in the localization so that it was safe, but with minimal other effects. Would you be wailing about the change then? This is the same type of thing – changing content so that it alienates fewer people.

      And yeah, I know where this argument is going to go. You’re going to trivialize the actual problems with this type of content, right? Well, unless you want to step into the role of speaking for lesbians who might have been faced with the prospect of some sort of conversion therapy in real life, I strongly recommend you do not try to minimize that. I also recommend you not argue that they don’t matter, or that you matter more than them.

      And no, invoking the spectre of Jack Thompson doesn’t make you win the argument. Need I remind you that the most recent time he was in the news related to games was when he was being embraced by Gamergate, a group who I’m quite sure would be against this change. So, playing stupid logic here. Gamergate hates this change, Gamergate likes Jack Thompson. Jack Thompson would like this change. Jack Thompson is bad, therefore this change is good. See? I can use bad logic too!

    • Mr0303

      How does removing a scene help this minority of players that are offended? Will they fall in coma if they see the scene? Are they that fragile and emotionally unstable? Did you seriously compare personal views and opinions with a disability?

      I don’t speak for anyone but myself and you have no idea what my sexuality or gender are and they don’t really matter in this argument. If I was shot or stabbed this doesn’t give me any right to complain to the makers of GTA to remove all firearms in their game. If I can’t deal with it – I don’t play it.

      I used Jack Thompson’s campaign against violence in video games to show that it is the same type of mentality here – problematic content should be removed. I don’t care about his personality or recent activities.

    • Infophile

      How does leaving this scene in help the minority of players that are offended by it being taken out? Will they fall in coma if they don’t see the scene? Are they that fragile and emotionally unstable?

      By the way, you might want to look up “analogy” on Wikipedia. You might learn a bit how using an analogy isn’t the same as equating two things.

      Oh, and even if you haven’t been shot, you do have the right to complain to the makers of GTA to remove all firearms from the game. That’s called “free speech.” You literally just made an argument against free speech here.

      Of course, the makers also have every right to ignore your complaint. Or they could listen to it and decide it has value. In this case, NOA listened to a complaint and decided it has value.

    • Mr0303

      You keep mentioning players offended by the scene being taken out – you are purposefully misrepresenting people that are against censorship trying to equate them to the perpetually offended crowd that don’t want to see any type of content X. People want to see the game in its purest form – this is why removing content from a piece of art or media is never OK.

      I have the right to complain about it but it would be stupid and in detriment to people who enjoy that content. So rather than choose a game that doesn’t have the “problematic” content and support the free market I’ll try to force the developer to change their vision of the game thus limiting their free speech. People are not standing against the opinions and right to expression of the minority that doesn’t want the scene – they are against their authoritarian approach. It seems you are the one making the argument against free speech.

      Well this is what these articles are for, aren’t they? To inform the consumer and let them decide whether the business move that a company takes is wise. Thus there are a number of people that don’t like to be coddled and know that the snowflakes making those complaints don’t have that much purchasing power.

    • Infophile

      You keep mentioning players offended by the scene being put in – you are purposefully misrepresenting people that are against gay conversion therapy trying to equate them to the perpetually offended crowd that don’t want to see any type of violence in games.

      Seriously, you make it too easy. You never actually address the root complaints about this, and so it’s trivially easy to just turn your arguments around with a few word changes to argue the exact opposite point.

      And there’s no “purest form” for the game. Fire Emblem Fates was not handed down to us in its finished form from the gaming gods on high (All hail Nintendo, hallowed be thy name). It was made iteratively, in a slow process of development and changes. Once of these versions was eventually released to the Japanese market. Another version – including changing the language used in the game – will be released to the North American market. All you can say about the Japanese version is that it’s older and underwent less revision. That doesn’t make it more “pure.” There are certainly many prior versions of the game, many of which perfectly playable. Are those more pure? Are you going to be mad at the Japanese devs because they didn’t release it as soon as it was playable, without bothering to check it for typos, game balance, regular characterization across chapters? Without going back to think over story elements?

      It’s also quite possible that since they had a release date to meet, there was more those devs wished they could have done before releasing it. That’s always the case in game development. It’s never done, but sooner or later it has to be shipped. There’s nothing special or pure about the shipped version.

      You’re acting like games are written by a single author who slaves over it until it’s perfect before releasing it to the world, resulting in one definitive version. This isn’t the case for games. It often wasn’t even the case for books.

    • Mr0303

      You are just repeating my words to avoid addressing any of the points I raise. I understand – that would require actual thought rather than mindless rhetoric.

      Your argument would’ve hold some water if something was changed to improve the experience, but the content is being cut out. Plus they are not removing a bug or something that is blatantly wrong – they are trying to avoid backlash from a minority of people that can’t be pleased.

      So, let me get this straight – if somewhere along the lines the devs started removing features and game modes you’d be OK with that since game creation is an iterative process?

      The number of creators has no bearing when it comes to censorship. Someone took the time to write that scene, someone put it in the game and in some cases people acted it out. Invalidating their work is a bit disrespectful.

    • Infophile

      And now you’re just making things up. Nowhere does the article say that content is being cut out. We don’t know if it’s being cut out entirely, or simply changed. Don’t jump to the worst assumption just because it’s better for your argument.

  • Razorfall

    I don’t have a problem if it’s censored, it’s how it’s censored that will bother me.

    If they remove her as a choice to marry altogether I will be super pissed. If they remove the drugging and make her bi it’s not that big of a deal for me (but it will be offensive to LBGT folks). If they remove her as a choice altogether, that is unacceptable.

    • Rebochan

      I don’t think making her bisexual would offend LGBT folks given that bi-erasure is such a constant problem in media in the first place, but drugging her to do it or implying only the awesome male main character breaks her otherwise lesbian streak would.

  • Speed12345

    Nintendo of America always messing with the things!

  • RepeatingDigits

    When will NoA die? Jesus christ, and I was so hyped for Fates, too. Fuck all of this.

    • Brian Stevenson

      This one thing destroyed all your hype for the entire game? Wow.

    • RepeatingDigits

      Of course, I don’t support censorship. If I did I’d be a part of the problem.
      Same went for Xeno X, Bravely Default and Fatal Frame V.

  • I<3Pawnee

    In this scenario, there is no way for Nintendo to win. If they keep this supposed “gay conversion via drugging” scene in the game, they risk offending the LGBT community. By removing it, they anger the censorship crowd. If they do end up removing the so-called “gay conversion” scene, I think it’s definitely the lesser of two evils. I think this is one of those scenarios when people need to realize that a company very well may be between a rock and a hard place, and not everything is clear cut or black and white.

    • RepeatingDigits

      Censoring is censoring. There’s no defending that. It’s offensive to someone? tough shit, grow thicker skin or just ignore it.
      People who actually buy and play games (Hint: not the people who would get offended) are fucking tired of companies altering the source material when bringing it to western audiences due to an insignificant and perpetually offended group.
      Good thing I’m bothering to take japanese classes, in some years I’ll be able to avoid all this politically correct puritan bullshit the west is so infatuated with.

    • I<3Pawnee

      I’m certainly not defending censorship. I’m saying that it’s not as simple as everybody makes it out to be.

      I buy and play games, and as a member of the LGBT community, I do find it mildly offensive. Am I still buying the game? Yes. Would I buy it with that scene still in it? Yes. So there are in fact some people who do buy the games who DO get offended by such things. I also find your insinuation that (in this scenario) the LGBT community is “an insignificant and perpetually offended group” quite offensive, but there’s not really much I can do about it, is there?

      It’s not easy to just say that “censorship is censorship.” While yes, that statement is fundamentally true, there are soooooo many factors that go into it that it’s not fair to just throw out explatives and hate a company for it. Literally every game that comes to the west is censored in some way or another by this definition, but I don’t see this amount of vitriol being slung at other companies.

      Long story short, I think a lot of it comes down to simple marketing. Just my opinion, obviously, but I mean, the goal is to sell as many games as possible. To do so, you have to appeal to as broad a base as possible, which means offending as few people as possible. Somebody is always going to be offended, and somebody is always going to be unhappy. Whether it be you or another group, it’s impossible to please everybody.

    • LeDom

      ”grow thicker skin”
      Ah please, you’re throwing a tantrum and whining about how NoA is killing your hype because they’re toning down implications of date rape and gay conversion.

      Take your own advice.

    • Brad Pr▲me

      fuck the LGBTWTFBBQ community. You can’t do anything without potentially offending someone, so fuck them, let them be offended.

    • I<3Pawnee

      Really? Come on.

    • Brad Pr▲me

      Yes really. In Fable you can take a potion that will turn your character into the opposite sex. What if trannies find that offensive? Should we shut it down? How about we remove blood from video games because it might trigger someone who’s hemophobic? Homosexuality is very offensive to me, yet I don’t see video games censoring that.

    • I<3Pawnee

      You misunderstand. I was referring simply to your incredibly rude remark “fuck the LGBTWTFBBQ community.”

      You are, of course, free to your homophobic remarks, I was just saying that it was unnecessarily rude.

    • Brad Pr▲me

      You think that’s homophobic??
      I have no problem with people who are homosexual. I do have a problem with people using their sexuality to force ideals on others.

    • I<3Pawnee

      You’re righy, I’m sorry. It’s merely derogatory, not homophobia, which I suppose is a step up.

      Your statements are confusing though – homosexuality is very offensive to you, though you have no problem with people who are homosexual? And I never once said anything about anybody forcing their ideals (sexuality or otherwise) on anybody, so I’m really confused as to where that’s coming from.

    • Brad Pr▲me

      Homosexual sex portrayed in video games is offensive. I don’t care what two gay people do behind closed doors, but no need to rub it in people’s faces.

    • Wolfe

      I’m from a very anti-censorship stance, and NoA has a long history of embracing it needlessly. In this instance however, you’re spot on. This is a no win scenario for them. Today’s political climate would spark this up no matter what they do.

    • Rebochan

      Yea, today’s political climate is a lot less friendly to drugging women.

    • Wolfe

      Go pick a fight with someone else ya little fuck.

  • seik769

    Its always something with the Western releases and then I get a little sick of Nintendo changing crap people gripe about things I like the way that they were originally however that happened to be like more cleavage just some different dialogue. I dont see any reason to change it. Another example that comes to mind is bravely default when they change some of the outfits because they were skimpy like really these are 3d sprites that you know how would you even be concerned about that I don’t understand why they changed it

  • Refl

    Perfectly okay by me. The original scene wasn’t exactly brilliant writing anyway, going off of initial reports. Would rather have more people able to enjoy the game with me than retain something unnecessarily… creepy.

  • Name

    Can you marry her if you have a female avatar as well? I’m pretty relaxed about most things like this but this is actually quite offensive, and in more then one way.

    • Rebochan

      Nope. There’s only one man and one woman in the games that’s homosexual, and Soleil isn’t the woman.

      And which gay character appears depends on which copy of the game you buy *head slap*

  • XxXGodXxX

    Good thing 3ds homebrew is thing. Not only can i get an uncensored version, i can get it for free.

  • Firion Hope
  • Rebochan

    Good.

    The original scene is at the absolute best just there to let men fulfill their fantasy of sleeping with a lesbian. It is creepy as fuck and has no place in the Fire Emblem franchise. At worst, it is a straight up “conversion” story.

    Kanji is a bisexual teenager who comes to terms with being atypical for what’s expected of him by society. There is no comparison.

    • Mr0303

      Or she is a bisexual character and given the dialogue it seems that way. There is no “conversion” going on – after the whole ordeal Soleil still llkes girls, but she is able to talk to them.

      http://nichegamer.com/2015/07/the-story-behind-fire-emblem-fates-completely-falsified-gay-conversion/

    • Rebochan

      You have to convert her sexuality to marry her. She would not have found the MALE main character sexually attractive if he hadn’t drugged her against her will so she would see him as feminine. Otherwise she would have only been interested in girls.

      Why do you think the only way to help a person deal with their shyness is to drug them and then date them? Fire Emblem has even HAD shy characters before and somehow never had to resort to maximum creep factor to help them get over it and marry. Fuck, Florina couldn’t talk to men, and somehow nobody had to drug her to get her over it.

      Soleil is not a “bisexual” character. She is not presented as a bisexual character. She is presented as a lesbian, then a woman that after being drugged and seeing the male main character as a woman is attracted to just him. She exists to fulfill a creepy otaku trope because for some reason the current iteration of Fire Emblem is shooting for the lowest common denominator. Hell, this franchise even had a girl crazy lesbian once and somehow she made it through the game without having to be convinced to marry a dude.

      Linking to an editorial on another website doesn’t change that either.

    • Mr0303

      Did you read the translation in the editorial? It is pretty obvious that she still likes girls, so she wasn’t “converted”.

      So she saw his feminine side and liked his personality – nothing wrong with that.

      “Soleil is not a “bisexual” character” – facts show otherwise. Even if she was presented as a lesbian, does that mean that she can’t change or discover different things about her as she grows? The otaku theory is just a speculation on your part since the perception of this scene will be individual.

    • Rebochan

      Soleil is presented as a girl that likes women first, then a girl that likes one dude after he drugged her. She doesn’t see the feminine side of the avatar until he forces it on her. This is not hard. There is no version of the translation where that doesn’t happen.

      The otaku theory is pretty dead on given the change in art style and adding things like the rubbing mini game or even the sauna and swimsuit DLCs from the last one.

    • Mr0303

      He didn’t force her to see his feminine side- that was never the intention of the protagonist. She saw that on her own. Soleil could’ve reacted in many different ways, but she chose to see him as a person even after he lied to try and help her. You don’t marry someone just based on sexual attraction.

      There is nothing wrong with sexuality being represented in games.

      Again – whatever the interpretation, there is no reason to remove it from the game.

    • Rebochan

      Yea, but you also generally don’t marry someone that drugged you either unless you’re screwed up in the head.

    • Mr0303

      Well it reflects on Soleil’s character than. It’s her fault for liking someone who lied to her.

    • Rebochan

      Soleil isn’t a real person, she can’t make choices for herself. You also spent a lot of time talking about how in reality this was a good thing for Soleil, so that’s a strange stance to take now.

    • Mr0303

      Ok, she is a plot device, that gives the player a certain experience by providing feedback. A part of the game that shouldn’t be cut out, because she is as important as any other NPC.

  • Mr0303

    There is no “gay conversion” in the game and here is a translated script for the scene in question:

    http://nichegamer.com/2015/07/the-story-behind-fire-emblem-fates-completely-falsified-gay-conversion/

    • Rebochan

      She wasn’t interested in a dude until she was drugged. Pretty much the definition of “gay conversion.”

    • Mr0303

      The drug didn’t make her like the protagonist. She saw him as a female and then liked him as a person. If anything he helped her with her sexuality – after the ordeal she still likes girls, but now she’s able to talk to them.

    • Rebochan

      She wouldn’t have liked him if he hadn’t drugged her. Even if he just said “What if you saw me as a girl?”, there would have been an actual choice to be made and this sequence would not have upset nearly so many people. Hell, it probably would have been funnier if Soleil started doing it on her own to the point of picking out dresses for the avatar before toning things down and in the process of bonding with the avatar she started to realize she loved him. The problem is the lack of agency. She didn’t ask for help with her sexuality. She didn’t ask to be forced to physically process the world differently. She wanted to talk to girls without being shy. There a zillion ways to get help for problems taking to a group of people that don’t involve your friends drugging you.

      Again, this series has done this before. Florina back in 7 couldn’t talk to men. Nobody ever forced her to – she either worked up the nerve on her own, or others helped the men she was trying to speak to get closer to her. The big factor here is that Soleil isn’t given a choice, she’s given a plot device.

      On top of that, converting lesbians or drugging lesbians to make them love a certain person is a very common anti-gay plot device. Also, being the one dude that a lesbian falls for (implying that lesbians aren’t really into women, they just haven’t met the right man.) Fire Emblem was written by people who know that, and chose to do it anyway. Soleil is not a real human being, she’s a fictional character and everything she does or says is determined by another person.

      Hell, even presenting her as a bisexual woman first and THEN pointing out she has more trouble with women than men would have knocked out most of these problems. The only people claiming she’s bisexual are people that are trying to justify bad storytelling.

    • Mr0303

      That was the way the authors chose to deal with the problem. You not liking the method is no justification for removing the entire scene. It is the equivalent of ripping out a page in a book, because you don’t like the content.

      “anti-gay plot device” – well that’s one way of interpreting it, but she didn’t really stop liking women because of the potion. The protagonist explained the situation to her and she accepted this method long before the marriage proposal. She could’ve reacted in many different ways, but she decided to work on her problem. I agree that he shouldn’t have drugged her without her permission initially, but this is a mistake the protagonist made.

      People not liking the way the story moves is no justification for removing it from the game.

    • Rebochan

      LOL, you being okay with the scene being horribly offensive to lesbians doesn’t make it okay either. Nintendo decided in their OWN game it didn’t belong there, and they’ve taken it out. They change things in Fire Emblem all the time when they localize these games, and taking out “drugging a lesbian to make her eventually sleep with you” is one most people are okay with.

      People change things in their published books due to backlash all the time. They have that right to do so.

      Not shockingly, you zero’d in on one line of my post and ignored the rest while still trying to swear it’s not anti-gay even though “the lesbian just needs the right man” is a pretty well documented trope (even James Bond did this back in the 60s.)

      There’s ways to present a bisexual character with dignity, and this was not it.

    • Mr0303

      Offense is always taken, never given. Someone being offended means nothing. Personal feelings inside one’s own head don’t concern me – censorship does. Nothing should ever be censored from the original vision because it might offend someone.

      You can interpret it however you want – anti-gay, pro-gay, pro-nazi, pro-marriage – none of that is a reason for censorship.

  • I<3Pawnee

    Shouldn’t this article be labeled as a rumor, since there is no proof that any changes are being made? I take that statement to mean that there is no “gay conversion” taking place, not that they’re removing something – there’s nothing to remove because that’s not what’s going on. And from the looks of the other links from other commenters, that seems to be the case.

    Additionally, is the preview text from the main site honestly “ugggggggh”?

    • azariosays

      i added “possibly” and the uggggh was probably cause i couldn’t think of anything witty at 5am. Should i change it?

    • I<3Pawnee

      I was simply trying to say that it feels very unprofessional for a site to portray something as news when it’s full of opinion with no concrete evidence to back it up, and that it was extremely unprofessional to write “uggggh”. I don’t think there needs to be a witty comment – just a brief snippet to let us know what the article is about or whatnot.

  • DariusQ

    Makes you wonder why someone would have bothered to write such a scene in the first place knowing Nintendo would likely just censor it anyways. I guess creative decisions count for something everywhere except NA.

  • Richard Miller

    Emotional people continue to ruin gaming with censorship.

  • Montana Szobonya

    C’mon of course NoA censored Fire Emblem…and I hope your ready for them to censor Bravely Second as well. Once again this type of “localization” is unnecessary and unwanted by fans. Nintendo is pandering to professional victims and their infinite desire to be offended, funny thing is they will probably never play the game anyway.

  • SullenSamurai

    This character isn’t a lesbian — full stop. She’s potentially bisexual, but even then, all her in-game romance options are male. She’s more likely a “heterosexual girl that likes cute girls because they’re cute”, a well-worn anime trope that’s clearly not going anywhere. But unlike some characters, say Katsuragi from Senran Kagura, instead of participating in unwanted (for the target) fondling, she’s subject to unwanted (for her) embarrassment when said cute girls are nearby. The protagonist doesn’t convert her proclivities and preferences (sexual and otherwise), just unintentionally appeals to them in a rather bizarre and roundabout way.

    Either people are doing a bad job of avoiding spoilers, or they’re simply not doing the research.

  • Razorfall

    People have to realize you HAVE to push the boundaries sometimes, if only to have people ask why.