Total Control 46: OpZero; Campaigning for Fatal Frame V Physical Release

Monday, August 31st, 2015

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By


total control fatal frame

Welcome to episode 46 of Total Control, oprainfall’s official podcast. Recorded on Aug. 30, join Azario Lopez, Joe Sigadel, Steve Baltimore and Adam from Operation Zero as they discuss the importance of campaigning for things you want, most specifically, campaigning for a physical release of Fatal Frame V for the Wii U and how the movement started. Also talk about it, are Twitch streamers compared to games journalists and what publishers do to butter them up, Xenoblade Chronicles X Special Edition, and a new Hatsune Miku Game.

OpZero’s Twitter

Petition for Fatal Frame V: Change.org

Number: 1-800-255-3700 followed by option 5 and then option 3
Email: This link will get you NOA’s email
Twitter: @NintendoAmerica

Joe’s Game of the Week:

Azure Striker Gunvolt

Click ‘Play Now‘ to open player.

You can follow the cast on Twitter:


Don’t forget to subscribe by adding the Total Control RSS feed to your podcast software. Also be sure to check us out on iTunes. If you would like to contact us, email us at totalcontrol@operationrainfall.com.




  • JDobbs

    I sure hope Fatal Frame V receives a physical release, even if it is a limited run for the fans. I don’t know why they don’t want to try a limited physical production of the game as it worked well for them in the past. There is one question I do have. How well has the series sold overall?

    • TrueWiiMaster

      According to VGChartz, no Fatal Frame game has broken 200,000 copies sold, globally. I’m pretty sure they don’t have all of the sales accounted for (Japan’s missing on several), but the franchise is clearly a very low seller.

    • iamarchaeus

      Dude that was like over a decade ago- back then MGS2 was a huge seller with only 6 million units sold.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      Even today, 6 million is huge for an exclusive. The Uncharted franchise, for example, hasn’t had any game hit 7 million (again, according to VGChartz). Generally only huge multiplats and mega-hit exclusives sell more than 7 million copies.

      For context, the best selling Fatal Frame is ranked #1316 for the PS2 based on sales. There were 1315 games that sold better on the PS2. Even back then, those sales were bad. Oh, and MGS was #11.

    • azariosays

      niche games are niche though. If all publishers went by this model we would never see the physical release of games like mugen soulz, senran kagura, or atelier titles. There is profit to be made in digital sales. PS4 sells physical games day one for 50 dollars and PS3 games now come out for 40. so why is nintendo still even getting away with a 60$ price on new games? it’s the fans that support the consoles.

      numbers a side, there is no down side to a limited physical run, the money will still be made and everyone will be happy. 20,000 copies is not something unheard of to produce since companies do it all the time.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      The Atelier games usually sell more than the best selling Fatal Frame did. Ironically, Senran Kagura had it’s first American release as an eshop exclusive, and did well enough that they chose to start releasing physical copies after that.

      I don’t know where you buy games, but every retailer I’ve seen still sells new PS4 games for $60, and the PS3 barely gets any games anymore, but when it does get new non-budget games, like the next CoD, they also go for $60.

      What I’m saying is that Nintendo will make less money, and there wasn’t much to be made in the first place. You’d be happy if you got your disc, but Nintendo has the bottom line to think about.

    • iamarchaeus

      This is bullshit since the last fatal frame game came out over a decade ago.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      Why? It came out 10 years ago on a system with many times more systems sold, and did poorly. What makes you think it would suddenly do great if it came to retail in America?

    • iamarchaeus

      it also had alot of competition. that was the golden age of survival horror where we saw dozens of them all the time. now fatal frame is one of the last ones still around that people still love and remember fondly.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      I don’t think there was ever a time when there were dozens of current survival horror games…

      That aside, you’re kind of making my point for me. The last Fatal Frame came out at the peak of survival horror popularity, and still did very poorly. The genre has only declined since then, which is why there are so few left today other than budget-priced indies.

    • iamarchaeus

      explain the success of games like outlast, until dawn, amnesia, Resident Evil HD remaster, Alien Isolation and evil within?

    • TrueWiiMaster

      All of those are budget-priced digital-only games (what you’re arguing against here) except for Until Dawn, Evil Within, and Alien Isolation. Until Dawn is still too new to say if it’s a success or not. Evil Within did pretty well, but only if you combine all 5 of the platforms it came to. Of course, it had the biggest name in horror games behind it, and it still sold worse on 5 platforms than any Resident Evil on just the PS1. Isolation sold half as many copies as Evil Within, and also came out on 5 platforms.

      Almost all of the games you mentioned have Metascores ranging from 75-80, about the same as Dead Space 3, which you called a “poor game”.

    • iamarchaeus

      why do you assume that fatal frame hs a huge budget? it doesnt. Koei Tecmo always has been able to release games retail. look at deception 4 and ar nosurge. telling me tecmo wouldnt have put those on disc if they d idnt know they would make a profit? they are far more obscure than fatal frame and if you were to combine the total sales of those games i guarantee they wont match the sales fatal frame 5 would get on disc.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      I don’t assume Fatal Frame has a huge budget. I just assume it has a higher budget than a budget-priced indie, and know that it will sell for $50-60 instead of $10-20.

      Your guarantee isn’t worth much. For one thing, those games are both on the PS3 and Vita, which means a much, much larger base to sell to. For another, Nosurge actually did sell better than all but the first 2 Fatal Frames, and was only a little behind them. I couldn’t find sales data for Deception IV.

    • iamarchaeus

      fatal frame has a much larger following than ar nosurge. it will outsell it.
      it is a statistical certainty.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      What are you basing that on? Sales figures certainly don’t support it.

    • iamarchaeus

      the recent surge of lets plays that cover the fatal frame games. compounded that the fatal frame titles frequently appear in top 10 horror game lists all over the web .

    • TrueWiiMaster

      So you’re saying that, because there are a lot of Youtube videos about it, the new Fatal Frame would do better on a system with 10 million consoles sold than the old games did on a system with around 80 million consoles sold?

      As far as I know, Fatal Frame has always been considered one of the better horror games, up there with Resident Evil and Silent Hill, but obviously much less popular. I don’t think that’s a new development, and it doesn’t necessarily mean it will sell well. Great games frequently undersell.

    • iamarchaeus

      if you dont want it, then fuck off. there are many of us who do.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      There really aren’t that many. That’s what I’ve been saying this whole time, and that’s why it’s a fair compromise for the publisher to release the game digitally, decreasing their costs and increasing their profits, while still making the game available to fans. The problem is that you refuse to consider anything other than having a case on your shelf, no matter what that means for the publisher.

    • iamarchaeus

      roughly half of all early adopters who bought the 8 GB model wiiu cant buy it. this sales model will sabotage the game. my consideration extends beyond just wanting it on my shelf. i want the series to continue.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      That amounts to only a small percentage of Wii U owners, and all of them have the option of adding external storage, enabling them to download it. Most people that would be interested in Fatal Frame are probably fairly serious gamers, so they likely bought the Deluxe or already have external storage on their Basic anyway.

      Being a digital release could be the best chance for the series to continue. As a free-to-start, many people that wouldn’t have tried it will, and as I’ve been saying, fewer sales will result in more profit. Profitability is what drives new entries. If it does well enough on the eshop, there’s a better chance that the next game will be on disc, too.

    • iamarchaeus

      tell you your customers to buy 100 dollars worth of hardware to play ONE game. go ahead.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      Why? Hard drives are far cheaper than that at this point. It’s not hard to get 1TB for around $50, and you could easily manage with half that. If Fatal Frame is really the only game you want on the eshop, you could even manage with a $10 flash drive.

      And again, the number of Wii U Basic owners who care about Fatal Frame and haven’t already added external storage is almost certainly very small.

    • iamarchaeus

      they also need a power strip too.
      also- expecting people to pay 50 bucks on top of the price of the game is still outrageous.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      Did you read my comment? A $10 flash drive would do it. I don’t know what you’re talking about with the power strip.

      And once again, that would only be asked of a very small group of Wii U owners, who chose to buy the version that required external storage to download much of anything.

    • iamarchaeus

      THATS WHAT YOU THINK!

      you cant use a usb thumb drive to play games like fatal frame off them. the data rots and you will fry your thumb drive so you would have to buy more.

      also- that “small percentage” of wiiu owners are half of all the early adopters.

      i am very grateful you dont work for a company.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      Flash memory can give out over time, but it takes a long time, or extremely heavy use. A flash drive can easily work for years on a Wii U. And yes, you can play games off a flash drive. That’s what my brother uses on his Wii U Basic, and that’s what he’ll be using to play Fatal Frame.

      Assuming your number is correct, that means less than 20% of all Wii U owners own a Basic. That number would shrink considerably when you exclude people who already have external storage, and people who don’t care about Fatal Frame, neither of whom would be affected by Fatal Frame being exclusive to the eshop. So yeah, it’s a small percentage.

    • iamarchaeus

      1/5 of potential loss of sales is not a small percentage. you are the worst armchair internet businessman i ever met.

      this is not fractions of a percent here.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      You really should try to read comments before you respond to them. I said that, according to your number, less than 20% of all Wii U owners own Basic Wii U’s. Of that percentage of Wii U owners, a smaller percent hasn’t added external storage. Of that number, an even smaller number wants Fatal Frame. It might not be a fraction of a percent, but it’s still a small percentage, and even they can easily get Fatal Frame by adding a $10 flash drive. In other words, only a very small number of Wii U owners will want Fatal Frame, and be unable to get it due to a lack of storage, but even they will be able to get it by making a small purchase.

    • JDobbs

      Thanks TrueWiiMaster. Now I understand why Nintendo went digital only from a business perspective. I still think they could have done a limited run of physical copies to avoid taking a loss on the game.

    • Jissu

      True. It is generally a low seller. However, Fatal Frame V would be the game to break 200,000. (including digital)

  • TrueWiiMaster

    Physical releases cost more to make and ship, and offer less profit because retailers take a good chunk. I think an eshop-only release, in which physical production, shipping, and profit sharing all disappear, is a fair compromise to get games that otherwise might not come out at all due to their low potential for profit. Physical releases are great, but sometimes it doesn’t make sense for the developer/publisher to take that route, and I’d rather have a digital release than no release.

    • azariosays

      Koei Techmo made vita’s Ar No Surge digital only, but allowed NISA to do a limited physical edition run on the game. Europe is also getting a limited run of physical copies of Fatal Frame V, why not just do the same for America? Fans are asking for 200,000+ copies lets make it a more realistic smaller number for fans. There shouldn’t be two sides of this, if you’re okay with digital then by all means that’s awesome, but as a gamer wouldn’t you want to at least help your fellow gamers?

      Devil’s Third has 0 fan base, but that dissevers a physical release? if your argument were accurate, then games like devils third would never see a physical release.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      I always prefer physical releases, at least on Nintendo’s hardware, but I understand that sometimes it’s just not worth it to the publisher, and in such cases I’m fine with a digital release as an alternative to no release at all. I sympathize with wanting a physical release, but I’m not against companies making a fair compromise.

      The best selling Fatal Frame in North America, assuming VGChartz is accurate, sold only 80,000 copies on the PS2, which probably had about ten times more systems sold than the Wii U does right now. A limited release on the Wii U would have to be very small, maybe just 10-20K.

      Devil’s Third is coming from the developer of Ninja Gaiden, a series that has regularly outsold Fatal Frame’s best seller. Even the Ninja Gaiden 3 remake on the Wii U sold more in America than the best selling Fatal Frame on the PS2. Devil’s Third may very well have more selling potential than Fatal Frame V, and Nintendo was still hesitant to give it a full release.

    • iamarchaeus

      In what universe is it not worth it to make money?

    • TrueWiiMaster

      How would Nintendo make more money by making physical copies? They’d have to produce them and ship them, and then they would have to split what little profits they make with retailers. By releasing on the eshop, they skip all of that, and get all of the profits, which might make it worth releasing (from a business standpoint).

    • iamarchaeus

      because more people would buy it retail than digital. duh.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      But Nintendo would make significantly less on each copy sold at retail, so in the end even if they sold more they could make less.

    • iamarchaeus

      The last fatal frame in the U.S. Was like a decade ago. Gaming landscape has changed since and horror is bigger than ever.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      The gaming landscape has changed, but horror is smaller, not bigger. Most modern “horror” games are more focused on action and violence than actual horror. Look at Resident Evil, for example. The games have been getting further and further from being horror games. Dead Space 3 is the same way. Silent Hill was cancelled. Horror has become more of a niche genre.

    • iamarchaeus

      People didn’t like dead space 3 (a 2nd sequel) because it was poor game and people wanted silent hills. In fact silent hills was one of the most covered games when it was happening. Everyone wanted it.
      Horror not big? The huge success of until dawn, five nights at Freddy, outlast (sequel soon) all suggest that horror is very much popular.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      Dead Space 3 was an exmaple of the direction big “horror” games are going, not an example of a good game (though a 78 Metascore isn’t a bad score). And even though Silent Hills got a lot of coverage, mainly because of who was making it, it still ended up cancelled.

      Until Dawn just came out, and hasn’t shown to be a success or not. It’s current score is only a 79, 1 point better than Dead Space 3. Outlast had a similar score, and all of the Freddy games did worse, except for the first one, which did the same. Furthermore, both Outlast and the Freddy games are budget-priced indies. The Freddy games go for $3, and at least a couple of them have been free (that’s how I got the second one). Neither of those games is comparable to a full-priced retail game. And ironically, both Outlast and the Freddy games are digital-only, which is what you’re arguing against. Actually, most successful horror games these days are digital-only, budget-priced indies.

      The only major retail horror game that did well recently was Evil Within, and even across 5 platforms it only managed 3.5 million. It only broke 1 million on one platform, and it had one of the biggest names in horror games behind it.

    • iamarchaeus

      and dont forget alien which was also a big success.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      Alien: Isolation came out on 5 platforms, and still didn’t sell 2 million copies. Critically, it did about as well as Dead Space 3.

    • iamarchaeus

      explain the mass lamentation of the canceled silent hills and the popularity of outlast, fight nights at freddy’s, until dawn, zomie dlc for COD, dont starve… id argue horror is back.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      People were excited about Silent Hills not because it was a horror game, but because Kojima was behind it. The Silent Hill franchise has been losing popularity since the first game. Most of the other games you mentioned are budget-priced indies, and Zombie mode is just extra content in CoD. It’s more action than horror anyway.

      Until Dawn is too new to even have sales figures. Right now we don’t know if it’s a success or a flop. Critically, it did about as well as Dead Space 3.

    • Steve Baltimore

      VGChartz is not a reliable source. They have been proven wrong many times in the past.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      If you can find a more reliable source with higher sales numbers for Fatal Frame, please share it. VGChartz may not always be perfect, but in my experience they’re right more often than wrong. Regardless, Fatal Frame is not a big seller.

    • Steve Baltimore

      It’ll sell better than Devils Third will, you can bet on that.

    • TrueWiiMaster

      You’re probably right, but we’ll probably never know. With all of the bad scores it’s getting, I can’t imagine Devil’s Third doing well, but it might still do as well as Fatal Frame (though the free-to-start model will probably help FF sell better), maybe.